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[email protected], Joyce and control a podcast, celebrating people with disability brought to you by carers Queensland, indice, local area coordination partner in the community all over Hetherington page hates the big bang theory is Sheldon Cooper. Even though at first glance, you might think they have a fair bit in common. The Brisbane performer has channeled his lived experience with autism into a one-man cabaret show, the no bang theory, and it's coming to the undercover artist festival and the Wynnum fringe. All of his love of theater goes right back to his childhood when his mother was covering children's affairs for the local paper. So she'd take him to all the shows she was writing about these days. His mom's a theater reviewer, and Oliver's discovered a passion, a career, and a way of understanding the world.
Speaker 1 00:01:24 I liked it to think that I learned how to interact with the world through theater. If I didn't know how to interact with the social interaction I would do, or what would this character do and how can I replicate that? The challenge with that, the downside I should say is that I'm not necessarily my authentic self. And when I'm trying to be Hugh grant in love, actually that doesn't always work because there's a fine line between calming and creepy. And I don't always fall on the right side of that line. I will freely admit that. And I talk about that a lot in my show, the no bang theory, which is specifically about my interactions around dating and how my autism affected that. And I find it a lot more comforting on stage than I do off stage. I'm far more comfortable performing a part than I am. Off-stage as myself as Oliver, because you know, they're aligned. I know the social contract that is happening on stage because we've rehearsed it for months. But when I'm myself, I'm always figuring out that social contract. Am I standing clued close to someone? Am I too far away? Am I talking too much? That's the other person board. And you know, that social interaction when it comes with autism is always hard to negotiate and onstage. You don't have to negotiate it because it's rehearsed within Schubert slot.
Speaker 0 00:02:52 Now you mentioned the no bang theory. Could you fill us in on how that show came to be? And is it a coincidence? It has a very similar name to a certain sitcom.
Speaker 1 00:03:01 It is not an accident, almost somewhat of a double pun. I'm a 23 year old Virgin, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. And so there's the level that it's, there's no banging and it's similarity to the sitcom. And it came out of the fact that I felt that I was always compared to Sheldon Cooper. My autism was ranked against Sheldon Cooper, and I never felt that I fit the stereotype of Sheldon Cooper. I got a lot of, oh, you can't be autistic. You're not like Sheldon at all. And I'm like, just because I'm not like Sheldon doesn't mean I'm any less autistic because Sheldon isn't played by an autistic actor. It isn't written by autistic people. There is no actual representation any way in the big bang theory to the point that the creators are going, no, no, no, Sheldon's not autistic. And I'm like, come on, you've created a stereotype that people put on a pedestal of what autism looks like.
Speaker 1 00:04:12 You can't then just brush away. People's legitimate concerns about that character. I love musical theater. And I knew I wanted to find a way of telling my story of autism and growth and triumph through the form of musical theater. That was something I wanted to do. Also, I wanted to shine a light on what autism looks like and the Sheldon Cooper effect of autism in the community. And both these shows were kind of festering in their own weird place that are festers. And you kind of can't force that. And they just could have came together at the, in the no bang theory. Last year, access arts gave me $3,500 to just develop the first 15 minutes. And then I was able to use that as a jumping off point to get some arts Queensland funding. And now I'm performing at the cover artists festival and the Wynnum fringe later in the year, I have a belief that the funniest, the thing you can do is tell the truth.
Speaker 1 00:05:33 It's always going to be funnier to be truthful than it is to perform a stereotype because there's Millbrook says comedy is tragedy plus time. So I want an audience to kind of be laughing and then just get punched in the heart because something real has happened. And I think you're more likely to get a message across if you're and disarming. Then if you're preaching at them for 60 minutes, cause there's nothing worse than we've all been in theater like this, where they're just like yelling at you and getting out a fire hose and spraying you with what they're thinking. And I'm like, okay, I feel very attacked right now and I'm not taking in the message, but if you can disarm them with humor, their mounts are open and then they can intake the message that you're trying to get across. So that's definitely something that I'm interested in, figuring out humor with heart and heart with humor, I guess, is what I'm trying to say
Speaker 0 00:06:40 As a performer on the autism spectrum. Are you inevitably compared to Hannah Gadsby? Probably. I
Speaker 1 00:06:46 Love Hannah Gatsby. I adore how to get through it. I remember when I saw Douglas for the first time, I hadn't yet watched Nanette. I just missed it when Nanette came out and I watched Douglas, cause it came up during lockdown and I'm like, okay, let's put this on. And I remember I cried because it was the first time that I'd actually seen myself on screen and she told stories and she's told something about autism that felt real for the first time. And that's what I think we need more off. I got to ask a question on Q and a earlier this year, they were having in the disability episode of QA, where they got the disability, Senator autism awareness, Australia, CEO, someone from love on the spectrum and a series of disabled people to talk about disability. And I asked the question about the big bang theory about why are we allowing non-autistic actors and not <inaudible> to define autism?
Speaker 1 00:07:54 And one of the people on the panel said, well, act as act. And I'm like, yes, technically that is true. We don't expect Matt Damon to be an astronaut to play an astronaut in the Martian, but we also would not allow Meryl Streep as great as an actress as she is to play Martin Luther king. That is just not going to happen. It's not an attack on Merrill to say she can't play Martin Luther king, but it's somehow an attack on Jim Parsons to say, oh, maybe you shouldn't have played Sheldon Cooper. I've seen Jim Parsons and other things. I think he's an okay decent actor, but I still wouldn't have cost him in that pot. And I still don't think he should have played that part. And even when they did the re costing of Sheldon for the spin-off, which I admit I haven't watched much of when they had an opportunity to cast a young autistic, they didn't, you have opportunities and you don't take it. And that really annoys me. But then on the other hand, I think just because I'm an autistic actor doesn't mean every pot I'm want to play is autistic. I'd love to play Hamlet. Last time I checked Hamlet is not an autistic character. I could bring my lived experience as an autistic person to that part and allow that to influence me that does not make Hamlet an autistic character. And so I don't want to be limited, but at the same time, I think on a fundamental level, representation is important. He's always about <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:09:47 Disabled friends who have disabilities of all kinds, not just autism. And one of the things I say is no representation without us to be truly representative. You need to include us in the process. And one of the shows that I think gets this really right, is another Australian product that Josh Thomas has done called. Everything's going to be okay. I remember watching that show for the first time. And again, it just opened myself up to a whole different experience of autism because the number of autistic characters on that show, many of whom are queer or different gender presentations to what I am as a CIS heterosexual white man. But there is some universal things that that show got, right, because it is written by Josh Thomas, who was an autistic individual. It scars Thomas who was an autistic individual. It also stars Kayla Cromer. I think who's also an autistic individual and it actually fills itself out with all kinds of autistic people at all different points on the spectrum.
Speaker 1 00:11:01 It's not just like Josh Thomas presents very differently as an autistic person to Kayla Cromer, to there's someone else on that show who I'm not going to remember the name of. So I'm not even going to try. There's also autistic and they all present shockingly differently, but they're still all autistic. And I think that is just as important for autism representation. Then Sheldon Cooper. I also acknowledged that I'm still a straight white man. I have a whole whole level of privilege that I black queer trans woman, isn't going to get access to just because I'm autistic, doesn't erase other parts of my, and the privilege that I inherently get in society. I am both in and out of the privileged circles. So I'm aware of the large amount of privilege that I have because of the disenfranchisement that has been there because I'm a disabled person
Speaker 0 00:12:12 You've heard of the national disability insurance scheme, but how much do you know about it? Find out what it means, how it works and how to apply for access at carers, Queensland's free workshop, understanding the NDI S find out more check for events coming up near year and book your spot
[email protected]. You can also call us on 1300 triple 9, 6, 3 6. Inclusion doesn't mean treating everybody exactly the same. It means giving everybody the opportunities they need to reach the same end goal and all that has come up against challenges with this during his work as a performer,
Speaker 1 00:12:53 A university. In my end of my first year, we did a big showcase and the feedback I got from my Trudeau was he told me to read the room better. And like, you wouldn't tell a person in a wheelchair to stand up straight, but you actively telling an autistic person to read the room better. When I am trying my best in every social situation to figure out what the correct response is. And it just puts a punch in the guts. I ran into this tutor at an event, she had a beer, we had a chat and I asked him, I told him, I said, you said this. And this really upset me at the time. You know, why did you say that? And he said, I knew you were autistic. And I wanted to treat you how I would treat any other student. I didn't want to give you any special treatment because of your disability.
Speaker 1 00:13:51 And if any other student had exhibited the behaviors that you exhibited in that rehearsal room by feedback would be, you need to read the room better. And I think that is just so problematic. Inclusion is not just about giving us the same rights as a non-disabled person. Inclusion is understanding that we need more access. I need more support in social situations. And if I make someone uncomfortable or I do the wrong thing, just tell me. And I have a number of friends, some male, some female who have gone all over. When you did this, you made me feel uncomfortable. And my first response is, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I will endeavor to do better. I just, I totally miss that interaction. It made sense in my head the moment I didn't think about it. I'm sorry that I made you uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 00:15:00 When I enter a room, I declare it early and go, this is the thing. These are the fundamentals that you need to know. One, if I do the wrong thing, just tell me too. If I don't think I can do something, I will tell you that two things that you need to know, because in my final year of uni, I went up for an internship and I didn't get it. And I asked, why didn't I get this internship that I really wanted? And the feedback was, oh, with your issues, we just felt that you wouldn't be the best fit because I declared that I had autism early and I found that kind of offensive because the truth is, if I didn't think I could, was up to the challenge of doing that internship, I wouldn't have applied for it. I have a good sense of my own ability. And I'm capable of doing what that role required. It is always a balancing act because when I wasn't telling people, I was being told to read the room better. And when I was telling people they were making discriminatory decisions. So I do think it's always going to be a bit of a minefield in a balancing act, but if I'm okay with it and have my sense of what is right and what is wrong, I'm going to lean back and own that more.
Speaker 0 00:16:34 So are there any plans yet for what happens after the no bang theory?
Speaker 1 00:16:39 Yes and no. Not that I can talk about at this stage because there's nothing that's been confirmed. We are looking to take the no bang theory on the road, across Queensland. At some point, again, nothing has been confirmed. We still only have the undercover artists festival and Winham confirmed at this stage, but next year COVID depending that is definitely something we're looking at doing. I do at some point, want to do a show that is just tangentially related to autism in like one of the things that I'm working on that hasn't gone anywhere yet is a love story. That just happens to feature an autistic individual because I love romcoms. And I love the love actually is dotting Hills for weddings and funerals. And I just wanted to do one about an autistic person and not be looking at us. We're doing an autistic love story.
Speaker 1 00:17:36 It's just kind of their problem with that is in order to get funding, you need to market it. And that downside of marketing is you then have to get people to care about it. You have to go, it's an autistic love story. Come check it out. Isn't this amazing. And that's all the dark side of this business and marketing in it. You almost have to sell autism. And my autism card, it's like, come check out my autism show. And my autism has almost become a commodity that I have to sell, which I'm okay with doing. I understand that everyone needs to sell a version of themselves in this business, in the arts to kind of get ahead. But the version of myself that I'm selling is my disability. And I'm not always sure how I feel about that. I'm performing at the state theater company in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 00:18:37 And I know that a lot of my cohort wouldn't get that opportunity in a million years. My university cohort would not get that opportunity in a million years. And I only got that opportunity because of my autism. And I only got the arts Queensland grant because I talked about its relevance to the autism community. And I got members of that community and doctors and support groups to show to the strength of the work. And I'm very grateful for that. And I'm very grateful that I'm getting these opportunities because I'm autistic. But at the same time, as I mentioned, Alia, I would love to play Hamlet. I would not want to be the autistic Hamot I'd want to be Hamlet. That is where there's a gray area. I think that I am very okay to market autism when it is relevant, but I don't want it always to be this selling point of he's autistic. You know, I think sometimes my autism is not relevant to the story that is needing to be told right now.
Speaker 0 00:19:55 But the story being told right now is the no bang theory coming up at the undercover artist festival on September 16 and the Wynnum fringe on November 21,
Speaker 1 00:20:05 I noticed so many of these works are going to be fantastic support the whole festival. It's not just me, Madeline little, the festival director has programmed and amazing festival from top to bottom. They're all disability led that diverse there's queer and gender, non binary and trans stories in there. There are all different forms of disability. Some people are getting up on trapezes in wheelchairs. I'm sure there are lots of amazing things in all different forms of art at this festival that people should check out and not just disabled people looking for disabled art, but people who just like going to the theater people's that will go see a show at Tupac at south bank, or if Wicked's coming to town or cats is coming to town or any of those big mainstream shows, if you liked them, I guarantee that there'll be something for you at the undercover artist festival.
Speaker 0 00:21:10 Find out more about the undercover artist
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