Speaker 1 00:00:06 Hello, and welcome to choice and control a podcast, celebrating the contribution that people with disabilities make to our communities. In this series, we are talking all things, disability, social inclusion, and the national disability insurance game. Throughout this series, you will also be hearing some great practical advice for making the most of your NDA plan from local people. Accessing the scheme. This podcast series is brought to you by the team at carers Queensland, NDRs local area coordination partner in the community. I'm your host Douglas Connor. Thank you for tuning in my guest on the show today is Jeff monk, a Brisbane based art enthusiast who has devised a technique for making visual arts more accessible to all. I was lucky enough to catch up with Jeff at the Queensland art gallery a couple of months ago, and experience his technique firsthand. Jeff has a vision impairment and while his technique doesn't date help people who are blind or vision impaired to experience art in a different way. It also helped a complete art novice like me develop a far greater understanding of what it was that I was looking at. It was an incredibly interesting experience, and I'm so excited to share Jeff's knowledge and his passion for art with you today. So Jeff, you have a vision impairment and a huge passion for the visual arts. Some people might find that concept somewhat difficult to comprehend. Can you tell me where that passion for the arts originated from?
Speaker 0 00:01:26 Yes, Doug. Um, if people do find that a little bit, uh, a little bit odd, someone who becomes so, um, passionate about visual experiences, but of course I like the side effects. Well, I'm a human being like you, I have the same passion, the same desires and the same interests, uh, that it might be visual experience just means that I seek to find out about how to engage with it and enjoyed and appreciated in a different way. Um, my background professionally was as forensic accountants, and I guess I've always had a bit of an analytical and inquiring mind. Um, and, uh, I found that I had, uh, a wonder of how visual arts particular paintings, photography sculpture came to be and, and form the expression of artists, um, about the world in which we occupied. So I applied my analytical skills, I guess, to understanding what art is and how, uh, uh, because I felt that all awkward being just a representation of materials, um, in a medium we're telling a story and what I had to uncover so that I could appreciate it was how to reveal the story
Speaker 1 00:02:57 That was through that passion. Jeff, for art that you came to start this land or visual translation language, can you explain to me how that process works?
Speaker 0 00:03:07 Yes. Visual translation language was the solution to the problem that I just spoke about. And that is that as a, a person who cannot see visual culture that is so rich in our world, I needed to understand how it existed, what made it up. And what I discovered through approaching this probably over 10, 15 years ago now, was that the answer to appreciating visual experiences was to understand the visual experiences of all phenomena phenomena being in the case of created arts, pints and shapes and various elements that artists used to create visual illusions that trigger our memories into, or trick our memories into thinking that we're looking at something other than just a collection of pintle Stein. And so the process works basically as I question and answer process in which the blonde person, um, leads a cited colleague or friend who incidentally doesn't have to be an Audix, but in eye dissection or an analysis, all of the elements that exist in the object of the awkward Robin get caught up in the, um, art history and the science, the wizardry of the artistry, what my system does is it simply reveals the objective evidence of what the artist has created, um, or put in place to create the visual illusion that old people respond to.
Speaker 0 00:04:52 And I have found that by leading with, um, a series of broad questions and then reducing those questions down into a more detailed set of questions, more and more of how the awkward and Howard is being, what it appears is revealed. And, uh, um, that process is easily learned. Uh, it is specific, uh, it is wonderful for both the blonde person and the,
Speaker 1 00:05:28 You started villain somewhat out of the frustrations at the limited nature of your own art gallery experiences in the past. Firstly, how does vis land differ from some of the art experiences available to people with vision impairment? And secondly, how does it alter the experience, all that for someone with a vision impairment
Speaker 0 00:05:47 Currently, um, particularly institutional art galleries and museums are endeavoring to grapple with the problem of
Speaker 2 00:05:58 Blonde and vision impaired and people who are visually remote. And I use the term visually remote to refer to people who may have poor a cycle may not have direct line of sight line of sight to appreciate it encompass a good many of the, this of community as well. Um, many of the offerings now tend towards, um, guided tours in which the, uh, the gallery might provide a specialist to, or that you have to book, uh, with a group of a large number of people and so many weeks in advance. Um, but then the God will, um, give the best attention to telling you what they think you can see in the painting. Now that's a lecture style, um, uh, presentation and walls. It's a good attempt and thoughtful lot of wise founders, a little bit demeaning, somebody else thinks is there to see. Um, I would much, rather than many of my colleagues who are blind and vision much prefer to be able to understand things, uh, from source information so we can make up their own mind, all the options that are out there at the moment, uh, include, um, the digital version of the guided tour, where the art gallery simply provide you with a digital player and says, that'll, that'll give you your art gallery experience.
Speaker 2 00:07:24 And of course the same thing, it's just generally a commentary about the art history leaves. You wondering what the hell was it that I was actually looking at as well? The third thing that's starting to creep in, which I find very interesting and a good tribe is the topographical development of, um, citing three D printers providing res edges, um, tracing the outlines of lines and what have you, or even objects, you know, in a particular painting. And I'm all such very interesting, uh, myself and colleagues agree that it creates a totally different object, which captures nothing of the, of the emotion or the, the, uh, outer elements of light, dark shade, et cetera, that are so vital in sculpture paintings and photography. They might give you a, a bit of a traced out lawn, but essentially unless you see the original and understand what the original is, the following a little difficult to, we tested that with the Queensland art gallery and thought that we should be very pleased about this monster out guard was if they had closed their eyes, when that three dimensional sketch was provided and they had not seen the original work, would they have been able to tell what it was?
Speaker 2 00:08:44 And they'd go, I'd had to admit that that would seem a little difficult. There are some good intentions. There are some well-intentioned people, but there's still a project.
Speaker 2 00:08:56 The land experience on the other hand is one in which, um, the sighted person can attend a gallery or a museum with friends, or with gallery or museum staff. If I wish at any time, they don't have to prearrange it. They can just turn up like any other member of the public and not be made into a special isolated group that has to be accommodated on a particular day using the, this technique using this inquiry system, um, by developing a conversation about understanding what the object and how it is being appears to be, um, the wonderful thing about these other sites that it provides a comparable experience. We can to a gallery at any time with anyone anywhere, just the same as any other side in prison. And we can enjoy and understand what the object of our interest is, and then embark on the same sort of conversations that everyone else would have.
Speaker 2 00:10:02 The likes, the dislikes, the reasons why the cultural aspects, the history, et cetera, once we know what the object is. And so the experience is a much richer experience. Not only do I think, but also the feedback from my colleagues and the size of the gallery officials, the friends and the families who come with us take longer over giving us the information that we ask about. So they have to create words. They have to look more closely. They have to slow down in the vernacular of today. They become aware and mindful and begin to appreciate so much more about what it is as well. And so we ended up with this rather wonderful experience through the, um, the activity and both of them being able to sit there and call, and they will have conversations 30 or 40 minutes, and I'll turn the besotted Brent over, Hey, look at that. A blog post that a Minnesota person, 30 or 40 minutes,
Speaker 3 00:11:16 It really is a, an unreal perspective, um, to have for a sighted person, to be able to go into the art gallery and to actually take a lot more from the gallery experience than they otherwise would have. You're a big advocate, Jeff, for making Hubdoc spaces fully accessible to people with disability, you don't believe that making a space physically accessible is necessarily going far enough. You spoke before about creating a comparable experience for people with disabilities. Can you expand a little bit on what you mean by that?
Speaker 2 00:11:48 Yes. Thanks Doug disabled people that to be special, I want a special experience. I just want the similar experiences similar as I can get within the constraints of, um, their ability to, so, um, I like to think that out we are not disabled by our conditions, whatever those conditions that we have designed by the design of the world. And in that regard, we come to the point of physical access, which is very, very important. I think it helps protect people's insurance policy. And I can give you the example of going to the Queensland Queensland cultural precinct to the galleries, the libraries, museums, all day, we have bridal trials crisscrossing the courtyard so that you can get there by public transport access points for any of those buildings, which is wonderful. So they're anticipating, for example, the blonde people might like to come there and independently travel to, and from the galleries, the moment you get to the glass door, of course, the bridal trial. And the next question is now, what do I do? So either they're anticipating the one person will be able to have autonomous access to the buildings and that's inclusive. Uh, but by don't have autonomous access to the content. You've got to have someone with you for that. So, uh, I believe that it's not just having physical access to an environment, but it's also having the ability to have comprehension of the content of that environment. So access plus comprehension gives inclusion.
Speaker 3 00:13:41 Yeah, I've spoken a little bit about accessibility so far and creating those comparable experiences for people with disabilities on this show. We talk a lot about social inclusion for you. What does that phrase mean?
Speaker 2 00:13:55 Social inclusion to me, um, is about being able to operate in the community to go about my business in the community without being made an exceptional. Um, I don't think most people with disabilities would disagree fundamentally. We just want to be included in to the activities of the day to day community, to be able to go and enjoy and participate with, um, as much comfort as anybody else can. And so rather than have special experiences made for us, uh, where organizations are often very fond of saying, Oh, we've got a blind exhibition, tactile exhibition. Um, on that point, I'd say, when you go to an art gallery, well, probably the oddest wasn't intending to touch the statues in the first place. And secondly, there's a painting on the wall over there. I'd like to see what can you tell me about that from I have no answer to it.
Speaker 2 00:15:08 So there is a, there is a prejudice within the, within the community about, um, how people with various conditions and, uh, disablement, uh, ought to be accommodated. But for me, social inclusion is about seeking comparable experience on the world about a spot providing tools and assistance as required, um, not creating, um, special groups, um, which simply highlights our point of difference rather than keeps us included in, uh, in the case of the art world. Uh, when I'm giving talks to people about how this land works and running workshops, which generally speaking are welcome well attended by the sided with the most common comment at the end of it being, I'll never look at the world. Um, the thing that I like to leave people with there is that as a blonde person revision, and I have a much richer experience of the visual world, then perhaps too many sides of people because people use their site as shorthand and move around blindly not paying attention, but as a blonde person, I have a much richer experience. And I like to think that I invite sighted people to be included in my world. So I like the idea that social inclusion is about me saying it's great over here in the world of division. And I'd really like to share it with come and be included in my world and, uh, free of charge.
Speaker 1 00:16:43 That's a really interesting perspective, Jeff, when you receive support through the national disability insurance scheme, in your words, can you explain the opportunities that the Endis can afford to people to really empower the lives of people with disability?
Speaker 2 00:16:59 Yeah. Has been a marvelous enhancement to my life. Um, it took a little while to get my head around what it actually could do for me. Um, but now that I understand that the proper role and use of NBIS support is to facilitate having these comparable experiences. I find that, um, I don't need so much of the care, but I need the facilitation. Um, it is very unsafe in a visual world with a lot of people to get around, to do the sorts of things I like to do. For example, I love kayaking. I love, I am cursed with enjoying all the outdoor activities, a normal, healthy sausage life might do to participate and ambitions in those areas. The NBIS has come along and provide me with the sighted companion to my, all of those things. Doable previously, they were frustrations, but now I'm able to cry.
Speaker 2 00:18:13 I can with a normal or kayaking club and complete bushwalking with family and friends all by myself. I have goals and ambitions to cover certain Overland tracks in Tasmania. Art experience is rich and valuable as it is to anybody. So I find that the NDI is thinking about it as the supply of tools and resources that I need to have good comparable experience. And that has made me a happier, more engaged and socially, socially orientated person. And I think that this, this is something which perhaps people miss speakers about home care and maintenance and cleaning. And what have you, when in fact, I invite people to think beyond that thing, what they would like to do that they would do if only they didn't have the conditions that they had, what are the things I would like, those things, things that other people can do easily. And it's interesting that during the, during the reason I was amused to hear how many in the community seem to be suffering from being constrained by something outside of their control, locked up within the houses, I'm able to get out in the bathroom, chair the world and do what I would like to do, how dreadful it was. Mental health was spiraling out of control. And I thought, Oh, I could think of was welcomed to the world of the disabled.
Speaker 1 00:19:53 Yeah. Like I said, that's an experience that I personally have been experiencing for for many years. And it seems like the NJS is really 50 odd years and it seems like they end GIS. Um, when you had that sort of change in perspective, rather than thinking of what funds am I receiving and started thinking, what can I use these funds for and in what sort of creative ways that really unlocked the whole process for you?
Speaker 2 00:20:19 That's exactly right. And it's the community side, you know what we get it for you that is a person with an impediment. It is reasonable and necessary that you enjoy a full life. I'm often called to have an exceptional loss. And I responded, I said, Oh, I'm sorry, galleries and museums for the general public. And so what I encourage listeners to this podcast to understand, or at least consider is that this is not just about keeping you safe and well that's excellent stuff, but it's about empowering you to dream about what you would wear your interests tied to you that you'll constrain or unable to participate in without assistance, whether it's technical or human in my view, and in my experience facilitating that, uh, so that you can have a full and rich life as any other member of the community has the right to expect
Speaker 1 00:21:38 Jeff living, where you live and being a keen Waterman. It must've been an absolutely fantastic feeling to get back on the, on the Bay there in Morton Bay and, and get back on the kayak
Speaker 2 00:21:53 Assistant fishing has been superb because we were allowed to do that during the lockdown, the Flathead have been running on the brim. Um, there's been plenty of opportunities, uh, to, uh, the foreshore, um, a guy, um, uh, Mark companions when chairs, um, awkward three books. I looked through the books and we asked the same question. Um, so yes, that has been, um, as, as rigorous as anywhere else, we'll be a little more rigorous with the police walking along the foreshore. However, my companions, uh, as I call them facilitators, um, still wonderful experiences. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I think the worst story was losing three Flathead from the car back in one morning, when you blow in front of Landa, when you already got two on board and a little digital,
Speaker 1 00:23:06 Oh, it's a tragic loss. Jeff
Speaker 2 00:23:10 Tragic loss. Well, when you're fishing blind, sometimes you don't even know what's on the end of the lawn and it was in the bottom
Speaker 1 00:23:19 Now. It's very impressive. Um, it's, I'd love to say that an extra Monday. Okay, cool. Awesome. Thank you very much. Well, Jeff, that's all I have to ask for today, but thank you so much for taking the time to have a chat to me,
Speaker 2 00:23:35 Happy to share experiences, uh, and encourage people to think beyond the boundaries that they might have putting in place, uh, through the, through the, um, the very reasonable expectations of living a good and happy life.
Speaker 1 00:23:57 Thanks Jeff. For more info about Jeff's program, visit land, jump online to visible.com. So that's spelled V I S E R B a l.com. There is some information up there about the process and how it all works. You can also check out a catalog of artworks to which the villain technique has already been applied. Thank you once again, for tuning into choice and control the carers Queensland podcast. For more information about carers Queensland, the national disability insurance game, or the local area coordination program, please connect with us
[email protected] today. You or you can catch up with us on Facebook at facebook.com/carers, Queensland indice. We hope this podcast can become a place for people with disability to share their experiences and their stories. So if you have a story that you think we should know about, please contact us via the carers cranes and inquiries line at one 300 triple nine, six three, six, or via
[email protected] until next time. Thanks for listening.
