[00:00:02] Speaker A: Choice and Control is a podcast celebrating meaningful inclusion of people with disability in our communities, brought to you by carers Queensland, your NDIs local area coordination partner in the community.
Each episode provides a conversation space for people with disability, their families and carers to share their stories with you. We also hear from members of the wider community, local businesses and community leaders who share information, ideas and possibilities to give you more opportunity and more choice and control in your life.
The theme for this year's International Women's Day campaign is hashtag inspire inclusion to collectively forge a more inclusive world for women. In this episode, we celebrate International Women's Day 2024 with a flashback to several of the outstanding women who have appeared in our Choice and Control podcast. First up, we hear from Lauren Killen, who was a panelist at our 2023 International Day of People with Disability event. We started by asking Lauren about her experiences in employment and inclusion.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Thanks Dean. I recently actually read a horrifying statistic at work. I can't remember the exact statistic. I did mean to check that, but in the rush to get here I forgot. But I think it was around 48% of people with disabilities actually live in poverty and I just wanted to sort of highlight that before I tell my story because I am a single mum of three teenage kids living in rural Queensland and I don't have family or support nearby. So every single day, even today, I still live in fear of losing my job because I can't afford to just live on the pension. The pension is great and I do have great support, but I would be one of those people living in poverty if I wasn't in employment.
Thinking back to my transition from education into the workforce, it kind of gave me a little bit to think about this morning.
I actually graduated year twelve in 2001 in the rural town of Gundamindi down the border and I followed in my parents footsteps of going to that school, traveling on a school bus for 2 hours each way every single day for year eleven and twelve from Inglewood, gun to windy.
I don't know how it happened, but my mum had this crazy idea that I should do work experience as a gillaroo on a property.
So I started work whilst in year eleven and twelve, working on a sandy, Katrina and Texas chic property between Inglewood and Gundawindi. And I do credit that experience to a lot of my work ethic. Strength to carry out the day because I learned so much from getting attractive bulbs about 10 km from anywhere without a mobile phone.
All sorts of things. Chasing sheep down a riverbank and trying to drag them up, and I was about 50 kilos and I only had 16 years old. So that sort of set a path of having a good work ethic for me.
I did not really have the support to go to uni that I think a lot of people in the more metropolitan areas have, because access to getting to uni, like, you'd have to move away from home. Things like that made it really challenging. I started completing a degree via distance education at USQ. Arts and english literature was my major, as well as public relations.
I was working in local government, so I worked for the full time whilst I was trying to study, trying to support myself. And by that stage, my vision was definitely starting to deteriorate. I ended up pregnant with surprise twins about midway through my degree. So I took Elvesta's degree and graduated with a diploma in education. And then I have a cert three in distance as well.
I'll try and keep it really short. Sorry. I do have a pretty checkered employment history and I want to try.
Bit like my dating history, they kind of go side.
So I was a stay at home mom for about ten years. I like raising twins in a very conservative country, rural town. That's just where my values align. So I stayed at home, and then in about 2014, I decided it's time for me to get a job, time to enter the workforce. And I ended up taking a job at Telstra Christina shopping center, selling mobile phones. And it fit in well with when my kids were at school and things like that.
About halfway through the term that I was there, my boss came to me one day and she, lauren, really think you need to go back to the optometrist and goes, you're carrying that magnifying glass around everywhere and maybe they can get you better glasses. I was like, oh, yeah, well, it's been a while since I went to the optometrist. Of course, I knew that I had the RP and most of my family had it, and we were conscious of my vision deteriorating my whole life. But being a stay at home mum, I don't think you really monitor that so much. I was so busy worrying about everyone else, didn't really think about myself anyway. So I went to the optometrist and then found out that I'd lost 9% of my vision. So just to give you guys an understanding, I have tunnel vision, like looking through a shotgun. But what I can see is also very bad as well. So my curity is quite bad as well. I went to this optometrist and he said, we can't do anything to help you. I don't think you should be driving, and you need to go and see a specialist, but they're not going to be able to help you either. So I ended up leaving my job because there was nothing I could do to make it any better.
And I was unemployed for a few years. And then my marriage fell apart and I had another breakdown.
But eventually I decided that I was struggling to get by. There were weeks where I had about $20 to try and feed the kids off, and I had to get a job. Like, there's no two ways about it. So I got a job at the local supermarket, at the IGA. I juggled three jobs at one stage, and I was still driving and trying to just act like a normal person. So I was trying to be as high functioning as everyone else, even though I was blind, and I didn't let on to my employees that I was blind. So I was working at McDonald's as a 35 year old woman, sweeping up the dining room starting at 03:00 in the morning.
And I've done all the hard yards. So I've gone from job to job to job, trying to work my way back up and I guess getting a sense of confidence as well. And currently, right now, I work for a company called Best Employment and I work in the DES sector, so I'm helping people with disabilities find employment. Just very rewarding to me because I've been through all of those types of employment and I know what it's like to try and just work without that handicap. But in a nutshell, that's my journey.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: And that was Lauren Killen. Next up, we go to one of our earliest episodes of choice and control to hear from Lisa Cox, an award winning writer, presenter and advocate for disability representation. We started by asking Lisa about the representation of people with disability in the media and ways to create greater inclusion.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: Well, there is so much that can be done, and speaking as someone who has worked in the sector, worked in advertising, worked in media, it's not rocket science. But I also understand from the point of view as a nondisable content creator, which is how I spent the first 24 years of my life, there can be a bit, a bit of fear around what to do, how to do it, do I say this and not offend, et cetera, et cetera. But some really simple examples would be in a journalistic setting, for example, using people with disabilities to talk about disability issues. So in the Black Lives Matter commentary recently, I've seen a lot of complaints, which is completely justified, about four white people sitting on a panel discussing black lives Matter and indigenous issues. And that's really not on.
By the same token, it's not uncommon to see a number of awarded journalists or presenters discussing the NDIs and other disability issues.
I suppose, apart from including people with disabilities talking about disability issues, also looking at ways you can use people without disabilities to talk about non disability issues. And by that, I mean there's far more to me than my disabilities and my wheelchair, my prosthetics and brain injury and things like that.
So if you do have a panel about something like climate change, fashion, politics, the budget, whatever it may be, look at ways you can include people's disabilities in those sorts of conversations as well, just to help normalize representation. And so it's not such a big deal for a person with disabilities to also have an interest in things like fashion and politics and the budget. Another example in film and television would to be looking at it more holistically. So by that, I mean not just putting people, disabilities on the screen, but also looking at using them behind the scenes, as well as the cameraman, as the script writers, as the producers and things like that. I know there's a company down in Sydney called Busdog films who have people with disabilities producing the content, which is really great to see.
[00:10:16] Speaker D: It's really, really cool. Some of the stuff they produce.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's fantastic.
They have the camera operators and things like that. And I suppose when an issue does, if you do have a disabled person, say, talking about climate change, just talk to them about that. There's really no issue to bring their disability into it.
A number of times I've been asked about maybe on a fashion or something like that and suddenly becomes a conversation about my wheelchair microstatic. So my brain injury, and it's really got nothing to do with it. But I suppose one good way to test is to say if you wouldn't ask an able. What a person. And if I wouldn't ask you about your two legs or your 2020 vision or something like that, then why ask it? A stable person? Same sorts of question.
[00:11:13] Speaker D: So you mentioned fashion there in your last comment, and it's obviously a massive passion for you. How is the australian fashion industry stacking up in terms of diversity and the inclusion of people with disabilities?
[00:11:25] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a good question, and one that's just embarrassing to answer, to be honest. The australian fashion industry, it's kind of embarrassing.
Disability has been featured on international fashion weeks, Milan, Paris, New York, places like that. For years and years. It's not such a big deal to see a wheelchair going down your fashion week or someone with prosthetics or something like that. But Australian Fashion Week in Sydney, as diverse as we like to think we are, we have still failed to put one person with disabilities onto the catwalk, which is really disappointing because we make up 20% of the community. And as I've said before, from a business perspective, which is my background, we are consumers. As I've said before, I can't walk, but I can shop. I have a credit card and it really makes no sense from an ethical and moral point of view as well as from business perspective as well, people with visible disabilities, because there may be invisible disabilities like anxiety or depression or something that we just don't see, but the inclusion of visible disabilities is really important just to help normalize these differences. I suppose when we see an accessible bathroom or an accessible toilet at the shopping center that hasn't got 50 icons with every single imaginable disability, it's just got the one. It's indicative of disability and things like that. Need for greater inclusion I was really proud last year to be one of the models at Mercedes Benz Fashion Festival here in Brisbane for the designer Carol Taylor, who's a quadriplegic designer.
And that was fantastic. Little Brisbane as much as where the younger sister to places like Sydney and Melbourne, we are really coming ahead and are leaders when it comes to boost of fashion. So brands like Christina Stevens are also coming out of here as well. And it's so exciting to see Lac Connect.
[00:13:54] Speaker E: It's a new way to stay in touch with your local area coordinator, carers Queensland, with everything you need right here on your device. It's a handy app to keep track of your Lac appointments, browse workshops and events, check out information and support, and get the latest news, stories and podcasts. It's available on Android and iOS, so whatever device you have, you can stay in touch. Head to our website to sign
[email protected] au and look for Lac Connect.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Next up in this episode we hear from Barb Cook, author, academic and developmental educator. We started by asking Barb about their work as a developmental educator working with adults in the employment sector.
[00:14:40] Speaker F: I also do a lot of work in the employment area. That's one area I'm very, very passionate about and especially with young adults going from school, transitioning from school into the workplace, that's where we really need to give them a lot of support in knowing what type of career do I want to do what sort of job is going to suit my neurology?
Let's understand what about the workplace that you may find challenging, that you might not realize until you get in the workplace. And also from the perspective of working with the employer, getting ten to change their perspectives of about having true inclusion in the workplace. Because quite often, it's not that there's quite often we'll do a little bit, but they're not actually truly listening to the person that's working there, what might support them. And quite often it doesn't cost a lot of money to make these changes. It's just a bit of a thought. Let's have some communication about what's going on. We might just need to rearrange how the office looks and it's not hard to do. And quite often when you look at that, it's just not for that individual. The whole workplace can benefit from having these open discussions about what works for everybody.
[00:15:45] Speaker E: And the whole workplace can benefit from some of those accommodations. You don't need to have a sensory processing disorder to benefit from quiet spaces or breakout spaces or understanding your sensory needs and those of other people in the workplace.
[00:15:59] Speaker F: Yeah, absolutely. Exactly what you say. We all have different preferences and things. I know lots of typical people that really don't like crowds, or they're introverted or they're extroverted. They do like crowds. So you look at in that sense of just not the office place of where you're working, but also the environment of the type of job. So your neurology, you might be sort of like, okay, I want something that's different all the time. So quite a lot of us also, apart from autism, will have adhd. So it's like something like 70%. I was reading a research, so some of us would like to regimented routine and that sort of stuff. But we also like to mix it up too with something different all the time to stop us from being fairly bored at work and that sort of thing. So you go off and go and look into a career, say, maybe like as a firefighter or a policeman. So it's giving you that sense of justice because many of us are very moral driven and justice driven. So that's a really good example of like, okay, I want to do a career that's exciting, so I'll be a policeman, but I've also got a sense of justice. I've got a regiment in what I'm doing and the standards that I have to give across it. It's a really good understanding of all these sort of stuff that we can.
[00:17:09] Speaker E: Do and understanding that people on the spectrum aren't all going to be computer programmers, that you can have such a wide variety of talents and strengths to be anywhere really in the employment field.
[00:17:22] Speaker F: Absolutely. That is such a myth about it. We're all going to be it and geeks. And that's there's a lot of different areas that we're in. So there's the arts, there is environment, sustainability. I have met a lot of people that are in environmental science and the land, care and caring for what's about us. I mean, a good example is Greta Thunberg how passionate about climate change, because we're very passionate about what we do and things, as I said, with the environment, but also with animals as well, working with them because we connect really well with them. Animals understand us better, I reckon, than humans sometimes. There's lots of different areas we can be involved in. And so like from my own life experience growing up, I was passionate about art. I loved drawing all the time, but I was also a scientist as well. So I was quite interested in analyzing everything I could find. So I brought that together of going, okay, I like my science part, I like my art part, and I did also like doing computers, but not as in being a tech or anything, but using software to be creative with. So I brought that all together so that satisfied quite a lot of different areas.
[00:18:32] Speaker E: Carers Queensland is growing inclusion, awareness and opportunities for people with disability. And we're better to grow things than a garden. We're working with community gardens to improve accessibility and make sure people of all abilities can get their hands dirty. We're starting conversations about what the community wants and needs and how we can work together to give everyone a place to put down roots and bloom.
Find out more, get in touch or look for events and opportunities coming up near you. Visit our
[email protected] dot au or call our inquiries line on 1300 triple 9636.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Pharmacist, model, disability advocate, speaker and instagrammer Sarah Shams is currently studying a master's of public health as she works towards getting disability on the agenda in public policy, the media and the fashion world. We hear from Sarah as she shares her experiences in employment and the fashion industry.
[00:19:37] Speaker G: I have personally worked in government, non government and private organizations, and not for profits as well. And unfortunately, I have faced, I wouldn't say discrimination, but I have definitely faced issues in every workforce that I've worked in in relation to my disability. Some were much better than others, however, and I think it's unconscious bias, and it's unconscious things that you do that you don't realize will affect someone. For example, we had a staff program where there was an activity where cards.
[00:20:09] Speaker C: Were all placed on the ground.
[00:20:11] Speaker G: So for me, being able to pick up those cards off the ground was obviously, it was impossible. It was too hard for me to do. But then that had the results of making me feel like a bit of a burden because I had to ask someone to get the card off the ground for me. Another thing, as simple as we're going somewhere, can you please find out where the lifts are or make sure the venue is accessible? These little things make a huge difference and that really definitely impacted my mental health and also my ability to do my role, even though it shouldn't, because it had nothing to do with my role. But as a person with a disability, I have those sort of thoughts when there's something that I can't do myself. Unfortunately, it's really important to ask the individual person with a disability in your office to see what they need. The issue is when you forget to ask. I think that is when you need to work in the policies of that organization. So you need to change the policy to make sure you have steps that are required to ensure inclusive environment for everyone. I think that's definitely a little bit more difficult to solve, particularly from organization or workplace to workplace. But I hope to work in that space as well and change the environment from within and from top down, because I think everybody needs to be involved to make a place more inclusive. Not just the receptionist, not just your colleagues. It has to be everyone. Board, CEO, director, everybody.
[00:21:44] Speaker E: These days, Sarah is working on increasing representation of people with disability in public life, including the fashion industry. She stepped out on the catwalk at last year's Brisbane Fashion Week and met another fashionable advocate you might have met on choice and control, model and mental health champion, Suzanne. Dang.
[00:22:01] Speaker G: I have been trying to increase representation of people with disability in the media and other industry, in the fashion industry. Basically, that's how I met know she's so lovely. But that's how I met Suzanne. I met her because I was on a Runway show. I modeled for a few designers and I was also on Brisbane Fashion Week.
[00:22:25] Speaker H: Awesome.
[00:22:25] Speaker G: It's been fantastic. And I was just thinking and reflecting on the year that I've had and I just can't believe the goals I have actually been able to achieve because being on a Runway is actually a goal that I had at the end of last year. And I said, this is what I'm going to do this year, and I'm going to achieve this, and I have, which is mind blowing for me still. So I'm very pleased with that. I would like to do more of that because I think that even though as a society, we are better and more inclusive in terms of representation, I think we still have a lot of work to do and a long way to go. I don't want young children growing up today thinking it's not okay to have a disability or it's not okay, and I don't want them to not feel seen to be doing things as well. And so that's why I got into trying to increase representation, basically. And I would love to do more speaking roles as well, because I think that the experience that I've had, not only my professional career, but also the advocacy work that I do, I would love to do more and I guess try and reach and impact more people as well.
[00:23:30] Speaker E: Sarah became an amputee at six. At the moment, her everyday legs are prosthetics, called sea leg fours, smart limbs with built in microprocessors. But before joining the NDIS, things were a lot less high tech.
[00:23:44] Speaker G: So before getting onto the NDIS, I actually had a pair of legs that I was on for about six or seven years, far too old and unsafe. So being a bilateral above knee amputee, I was having maybe three or four falls a week on those legs. And me being an active prosthetic legs user, going to work full time, socially active, et cetera, that was really affecting my obviously health, but also mental health. So finally getting onto the NDIS and getting my approval and plans done was when I first got comfortable sockets and better legs. But then slowly, I also started trialing the microprocessor knee, which is what I'm on now. And honestly, I have not looked back since I got those knees. They're just a lot more safer, particularly for myself, a bilateral above knee amputee where I don't have that other leg to stabilize myself with if I'm going to fall.
And they're just a lot more intuitive in terms of different planes and going uphill, downhill. One thing that will probably never be easy are stairs for a bilateral above knee amputee, unfortunately. But the microprocessor legs are just so much safer. That's probably the biggest advantage of them.
[00:25:02] Speaker E: Do you have a passion or a talent to share with the world? A small business can be a great way for people with disability to earn income, build your confidence, be more independent, and be an active part of your community carers. Queensland is supporting our next generation of entrepreneurs with the be your own Boss microbusiness project. It's a place to find out what it means to start a business, whether it's a good fit for you, connect with business mentors and learn from existing microbusiness owners and even opportunities to showcase your goods and services in the be your own boss marketplace. Find out more, get in touch or look for events and opportunities coming up near you. Visit our
[email protected] au or call our inquiries line on 1300 triple 9636.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: And our final interview in this International Women's Day special is with Brisbane mental health fashion blogger Susan Dang. Here Susan shares her adventures in fashion and her experience living with mental illness.
[00:26:06] Speaker H: Actually, in fact, I started my blog in fashion first in 2013 and I didn't find mental health and combine it with passion until fashion until two or three years later. I love dressing up. I would say I love dressing up. Bold colors, statement earrings, love lace, I love pearls. And when I go to fashion events, I introduce myself as a mental and fashion blogger. I do like a little 1 minute pitch kind of thing. I say I am a mental fashion blogger. I have bipolar. I want to share my story in my unique social media platforms as a voice, my voice to help other people who's both going through similar things. And yeah, it took me a couple of years to say that comfortably. And I've noticed that when I've been going fashion events this year, I say the same thing. And I hope that it inspire other people and it can help people in other way when they check out my website or check out my instagram or Facebook. And yeah, I've been going to fashion events since 2013, so it's like seven years and I'm quite surprised. I'm not sick of it yet, but I still love it a lot.
I love going to events and meeting people and I especially love going by myself because I think going by myself, it pushes you out of your comfort zone. If you go with your friends, you're confined to that group and you have to have an opportunity to talk to everyone. So I absolutely love going by myself and sharing my story in a way, in a vulnerable way.
I'm hoping that I can make a difference in people's lives. And yeah, there's a lot of fashion events coming up this month, in October too, so I'll be quite busy as well.
[00:27:44] Speaker E: And how important is representation that in the fashion world we see people with different abilities, different backgrounds, that it reflects the diversity of this great big community? We have?
[00:27:55] Speaker H: Absolutely. I think that's a really good question, Jodi. Two years back, I entered into a vietnamese pageant, and I was, quote, quote, the largest girl. I had both picking of me in lingerie, informal wear in bikini and so on. I was size 1414. I was 16 or so, and I didn't care. At a time I knew I was the biggest girl, but I didn't care because I want to become a role model for younger girls that anyone who has any size body can actually enter pageants. But as soon after the photos were published, I got some negative comments from people saying, oh, you're fat, or sumo, or, why did you enter? Because you don't look skinny enough. What kind of thing? Yeah. And it just makes me really curious on how people has this really beauty standard, especially in the age community, I would say, and it just doesn't make sense to me, but I know that for a fact. I enter the pageant because I not only just want to win, but mainly, but I want to be a positive role model for those who want to try again to modeling and just really important, I think I only go to fashion shows. I make sure I try and see if they actually have a diversity in models, which most of them do. It's getting better, and I think it's so important because we people with disabilities, we are also human, and we have our own experiences as well. And I believe that people can model no matter what size body they are or how, if they have a disability or not, they can do what they want.
My experience with the pageant, when I try to reapply again, I remember a few years later after that, they said that we only allowed six to eight girls. And this is a big eye opener for me. I'm like, okay, all right.
[00:29:43] Speaker E: Wow, rude.
[00:29:45] Speaker H: And I was like, yeah, very rude.
She said that, unfortunately, she can't ask me because apparently they had issues with how there's different sized bodies on the pageant and judges didn't like it or something like that. I don't know. It's a ridiculous.
I want to be a positive bomber for girls who want to do chart modeling, go to fashion events, or learn how to share the story in a vulnerable way that helps people. Yeah.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: And that was Susan. Dang. And if you'd like to hear the full interviews of any of today's guests, follow the links in the episode transcript or visit the Choice and control website.
Thanks for joining us at Choice and Control, a carer's Queensland podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to leave a rating and review and share it with your community. For more information about the National Disability Insurance Scheme or Carers Queensland, contact us online at ww carersqld.com au or call us on 1300 triple 9636 or head to Facebook and look for carers Queensland NDIs.
